i find myself there
Brandon is there. Collin is there. and…AARON IS THERE!!
Collin Haiku
Names rise from stone
Roots whisper through quiet ground—
I find myself there
Links:
Great Expectations (novel): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Expectations
The London Merchant (The History of George Barnwell) — the “Barnwell” reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_London_Merchant
George Lillo (playwright of The London Merchant): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lillo
Casablanca (film) — “Round up the usual suspects”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_(film)
Cyberpunk 2077: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077
Dishonored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishonored
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witcher_3:_Wild_Hunt
Elden Ring: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elden_Ring
Yakuza (video game series): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza_(video_game_series)
Like a Dragon (series) (rebrand context): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like_a_Dragon_(series)
Sleeping Dogs (video game)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Dogs_(video_game)
Dragon%27s_Dogmahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Dogma
GreedFallhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GreedFall
Tunic (video game)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunic_(video_game)
Stardew Valleyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardew_Valley
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrimhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim
BioShockhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock
Dark Soulshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls
Dark Souls IIhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls_II
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twicehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekiro:_Shadows_Die_Twice
Forza Horizon 5https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forza_Horizon_5
Death Strandinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Stranding
Hideo Kojimahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideo_Kojima
Metal Gear (series)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear
Total War (series)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_War_(video_game_series)
Total War: Warhammerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_War:_Warhammer
Warhammer 40,000https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
Henry Cavill (mentioned re: Warhammer enthusiasm)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cavill
Xbox Game Passhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Game_Pass
Check out our other episodes: ohbrotherpodcast.com
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
PROVIDED BY OTTER.AI
Using this transcript- give me relevant wikipedia links to reference things we walked about:
DRAFT
Sun, Jan 04, 2026 2:21PM • 1:18:07
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
New Year's celebration, birthday, Oklahoma, aging, video games, Cyberpunk 2077, Dishonored, Elden Ring, Yakuza series, Warhammer Total War, Death Stranding, Biddy, Orlick, Miss Havisham., Pip, loneliness, dissatisfaction, upper society, role models, pompous, apprenticeship, time jump, Miss Havisham, Pumblechook, Biddy, Joe, London, Great Expectations, narrative.
SPEAKERS
Speaker 1, Speaker 2, Speaker 3
Speaker 1 00:00
Taste of New Year's live and in person. Back with us.
00:08
Yes, I'm not dead. Hello. Crowd noises.
Speaker 2 00:14
Crowd noises, right? And not only that of a new year, but a birthday, that's true. So we had to break out the ultimate of special guests.
Speaker 1 00:23
That's true. The Birthday boy himself. Live and in person. And in person these gentlemen representing boom, representing Oklahoma, back and better than ever.
Speaker 3 00:35
How does it feel to know that your youngest brother is 35
00:39
not good, really. How does that really, it's
Speaker 3 00:43
not great. I'm reminded every single day by my wife, you know how old you are, yes. And then I have students that do the exact same thing. And then that final number of 35 hitting is like, Oh, dang. And I tell people, like, Yeah, I'm the youngest of three. And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah. They're like, well, how old your brother's like, 50s
Speaker 1 01:07
body slam them, yeah, yeah. My children like to do things like, yeah, you're old. And like, yeah, and, and like, yes, yes. What do you mean? Okay, yeah. But like, coming from a 12 year old, it's like, Oh no, my feelings.
Speaker 2 01:24
There's my favorite thing to do is to go into movies that I watched growing up and see how old the actors were in those movies. That's and then realize that, like, oh, oh, whenever I was 10, I thought this was the oldest person on the planet, and they are 36 How does
Speaker 1 01:45
it feel to be older than everyone in the NFL when
Speaker 2 01:52
you're reaching the age that NFL retiring? Yeah, oh, I know.
Speaker 1 01:56
Like, don't, don't watch the Olympics this year, because they'll be like, Oh, my God, this is the oldest person ever in the Olympics. They're 28 Shut up.
02:05
Watch how they can barely make it up to the starting block.
Speaker 3 02:12
I feel because there's, yeah, there's like, one of the quarterbacks currently NFL was like 38 and they're like, yeah, he's over the hill. He's washed up. He's done like 38
02:20
Yeah, three years
Speaker 3 02:25
we washed up. It's not that bad, I promise. And then it's like this guy just graduated high school and making $5 million like, All right, hold on. It's good to be back. I apologize for my whatever gap year hiatus or whatever
Speaker 2 02:45
you've been a bit busy. I have been a bit to be fair,
02:49
for those who have been missing out,
Speaker 2 02:52
I will say we have been giving life updates periodically. Oh, good.
Speaker 3 02:56
Some people at least know. But no having having a kiddo and then starting a new, new job at a much bigger school has kind of developed all of my time. And then sometimes, when I get home, and it's like, all right, straight to taking care of a little one, it's like, I probably need to sleep. And usually our bedtime is like seven, and being being in bed and pitch black and just hearing just white noise or thunder, like, Yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna move. So anything past seven or just in general, I'm like, Yeah, I'm I'm just gonna sleep. And fair enough, this little one's gonna wake up soon. So I know I have, I have been gallivanting, and I am alive, I promise. So I is here now for the rumors of my
03:45
Yeah, the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
Speaker 3 03:51
It's been, it's been, it's been, it's been awesome. It's been a trip. It's been a journey. Now getting a chance to be here. So, yeah, sorry, we had to take a
04:02
photo right. Here
04:05
we go live cover photo. Sorry to do so
04:07
much in one setting. Here, it's not Yeah, oh, it's Yeah.
04:15
So you've, you've, you've, you've moved your Yeah, you're, now have your
04:20
18 cats, yes, and counting, right?
Speaker 3 04:23
Yeah. So we got, we got one, we've been we got one indoor, and then we have two that we've just accumulated.
Speaker 1 04:29
I think they've, they've adopted Aaron, yeah, really is what's happened here. So the the previous
Speaker 3 04:33
owner had like, two massive dogs, I think, and so he just kind of let them run all over the place. And so since he moved, he took his dogs that opened up the backyard.
04:45
Nature abhors
Speaker 3 04:49
our neighbor's cat, whose real name is Milo, but we're like, No, you're, you're Leonard has been, has been migrated. Over and using our backyard as his. And I'm not saying like, he's over for a little bit and then he'll toddle back home like, no, he's been, like, staying in our backyard. He'll sleep in our one of our plant pots. He'll sleep like, under our the back deck. And so we've just been feeding him every morning and every night. And so he's just been, he's been our cat. He's a he's a yellow cat. He's really pretty and then, by proxy, we've had his sibling, I guess, which is a an all black cat, which I don't know its actual name, but we've been calling it boo, who's also starting me to come over. And then at one point we had this other cat named slim, who was this very malnourished, like emanciated creature, and that I even took to the vet, spent like $45 on and then never saw it again. So as of, as of right now, we have our cat, indoor kitty, and then we have two house cats, and I will say Leonard has staunchly defended his new home from other outside cats. He's gotten to cat fights on our front porch. Oh, dear from odere's Cat across the street. There's this big, fluffy cat that he does not like. So it's super fun when you're checking the house at night, all of us here and here just like, well, that's not our cat, and we see this other kitty just prowling our front stoop like it's his own territory. He's like, Okay, well, that's yours now, but yeah, it's he got a house we moved 45 minutes away, much closer to my work. Now, I'm gonna say, How long is your commute now, on a good day five minutes, and that's that's
06:43
speeding, or is that driving? Oh no,
06:45
that is. That's going below the speed limit.
06:49
It's vehicle could saunter Yes,
Speaker 3 06:51
it's the it's the first time I've ever had a job where I've actually lived in the same city that I've worked. So that's been a huge change. And then, if I'm really pushing it, it's like around the corner, and then my other part of the job is just down the street and downtown, and so it can it makes commute 1000 times easier. It makes getting home much easier, seeing the little one in the family. My wife has to drive a little bit, but hers is a much straighter shot, much straighter portion. And then, yeah, it's been, it's been life changing, especially to kind of drop him off in the morning at daycare, my little one going to work, and then having the wife scoop him up, and then being at home in a decent time for once. Like, well, this is, this is strange. It's not like midnight by the time I get home from my other previous positions. So it's, it's been, it's been nice, and so having being a homeowner, and all the funness of coming from homes, like, Oh, I gotta mow my own yard, dang it. Okay. It's like, oh, it's snowing. I got to shovel my own driveway. Like, what is this? And so, and all the fun things that come with that. But it's, it's been it's been nice. The change has been good. The family's been doing great. And so hopefully this year has opened up with with time constraints and be able to jump back on and do this a little bit more. Let's go, yeah,
Speaker 2 08:22
we're recording at the beginning of the year, first recording of the year. Yeah, look at that.
Speaker 1 08:29
Yeah, totally on purpose and everything, as everyone knows, yes, because we planned so well. Yeah, we're professional and whimsical.
Speaker 2 08:41
Don't forget professional Lindsay as we do now. Well, yeah, well, good. You've been busy. You've been busy, and you're still on break.
Speaker 1 08:51
I still break. I have been busy playing video games locked inside my house. This is all I've been doing since Christmas, really perfect. I've been hiding and just, like, refusing to leave because my break is almost over already, and I just been like, no. Like, the first week of break, we had to do all kinds of stuff. And then so then for, like, over the weekend, till now, I was like, Nope, I'm not leaving the house again. I'm just gonna stay. So not a lot on my front, hiding in the way, trying to finish video games before I go back to work. So, you know, that's really
Speaker 2 09:33
come in with a video game plan to start something or just see where the
Speaker 1 09:39
I looked at the shelf. And was like, you know, there's some of these that I never actually finished. I should probably get around to that. That's what we've done here, or I haven't played this in forever. I should get around to doing that. That's what, that's where the Spirit took me. And I decided to do that finally, so that that, yes, that's how we arrived playing cyberpunk again.
Speaker 3 09:58
So I. Yeah, is this one of the games that you've beaten beforehand? So again, start it, and then something happened. You're like, Yeah, well, two things, I started it.
Speaker 1 10:12
And like, as you may know, the initial release of cyberpunk, 2077 was not great because the game did not function properly. And so I played it for a while, and there was some updates that I could download, but eventually there was an update that was, like, so incredibly massive. With my old Internet being not good, I, like, physically couldn't download the size of the thing. So I just had to, like, not play the game for a while until and then I just, like, sort of forgot that I had it, and then I was just looking around at my shelf, going, Oh yeah, I never did finish this. I should do that. And that's where we are now. Like, I was, so that's where I got here. So I took a break from some of the things, and then I was like, I'm gonna play this. I'm gonna sit I'm gonna play it, and I'm gonna finish it, and then I'm gonna be done, and then we'll go from there. Like, that's what, that was my plan. There's some other games I need to get to. But like, I was, like, I just haven't sat down and actually played video games in a long time. I played, like, Forza, right? Like, racing, right? You sit down and you like, do a couple races, and then you like, leave, like, whatever. That's fine. Or you just, like, do some Dark Souls runs and you just, like, beat things, and then you leave again. But, like, actual, like, long, big thing. Like, I haven't done that in a while, so that's what I wanted to do. I'm just gonna sit I'm gonna do this. Yeah, that was a plan.
11:35
Did you have to start over completely from scratch for the update?
Speaker 1 11:38
Or no, I know. Well, I just started over anyway, because it had been so long, there's no way I would have remembered what on earth. Yeah, was happening? Where? Yeah, what are these buttons? Where is this what? So I just started over, just because, like, after a certain some games, like, it doesn't matter, but like, We're such, like, a story heavy game, like, I was like, I was like, no, no, I need to start this over from the beginning, because I don't remember, I remember some parts of it, but, like, not a lot. So I had to decide to start over. I was
Speaker 3 12:12
like, forget it. That's definitely been me with the Witcher three and dishonored series. I have not finished either of them because I'll get to a point where I'll just be bogged down. I'll stop playing, and then months later, I'll be like, I'm gonna pick this game back up. And I'm like, I don't remember how to use spells. I don't remember what I'm doing. I don't know where I'm at to start over.
Speaker 1 12:30
So that's true. I did that with Dishonored like, three times. I have never finished, I've never
Speaker 3 12:34
finished that game. Because I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna do the good inning and not harm anybody. And then I'm like, Oh yeah, I don't know how to do this
Speaker 1 12:40
stealth mode, yeah? It's like, I like the vibes of that, not the vibes. That's a bad like, I guess the like the environment and like the environment design and stuff, is like, yeah, good. And so it's a cool but also, like, I just never, like, clicked with it. I never got into it. And I have started that game at least three times, yeah, and then I just didn't.
Speaker 3 13:02
So would you consider the the whole setting of Dishonored kind of a steampunk esque Industrial Age England vibe? Yes. More on that later.
Speaker 1 13:19
Look at that foreshadowing, Yeah, cuz it's like, whale oil based and like all kinds of things, and so it's kind of cool, but like, I just never really, I don't know why, yeah, I never really clicked with it. Like, maybe it's because I get bored stealthing, I don't really know,
Speaker 3 13:41
because sometimes you just want to run in and gun everything, and then, yeah, I gotta wait for this stupid guard to walk past. And the little slightly impatient, Yes, true. That hinders a lot of the and I know there's
Speaker 1 13:56
like, movement tech that you can unlock and stuff, but the special powers, I don't how to do that. I just, like, I don't know, let me throw a fireball at somebody. Call it a day. It's true. If I want to be like, creeped out in a weird dystopian setting, I'm just gonna play BioShock again. Like, you know, I mean, like, who's gonna play that? And then you can just do,
14:16
don't have to sneak in that
Speaker 1 14:17
game, no, right? So it's fine. So, like, but yeah, so that was, yeah, I never finished. I don't remember if I finished the Witcher or not. The Witcher is also just like, the storytelling of that game is, like, so devastating that if you are actually invested in it, like, sometimes you just, like, can't emotionally handle anymore for a while, yeah? Like, stop the Red Baron. Yeah, right. Like, the whole, Yeah, hold
14:41
on. I need a 30 minute cry after this. Yeah?
Speaker 1 14:43
Like, I was gonna, where's my I'm gonna cry on you. Crying guys, it's fine. Oh no, yeah. Oh so, yeah, that's, it's kind of like that. Like, it's not exactly just the happiest of things happening all the time. So sometimes you do need to, like, I. Take a break and like, just, yeah, just like, not.
Speaker 3 15:02
I'm trying to think of some games that I've, like, started, like, hot and heavy, and then I just got bored with is everything, any games that you can think of that's like, oh, then I'm getting really good, and then after like, an hour, you're
Speaker 1 15:15
just like, that does happen to me sometimes, because, like, there's not like, if there's not, like, anything interesting happening, right? Like, I will do that, I will just be like, Oh, I can't think of anything recently, yeah, it's been like, Oh, I think the last the Tomb Raider game, which is weird, because I like those ones, but like, I just started it. I just, like, didn't have enough time for it. I think so, just the thought of, like, having to, like, go all around and collect all the stuff and do all things. I was like, Yeah, I can't do this right now. Like, I'm not ready for collect a thoning. I can't, like,
Speaker 3 15:54
I think there's been a series of games that have been like that. That's like, Oh, look at this parkour mechanic and, oh, climb this wall. It's like, I've done this 1000 times. That is true, just a different make and model on a different skin. So I'm trying to think of the latest game. But I've also been doing a lot of PC games, and if the internet is slightly bad, it just throws that same like, you know what I don't want to play today.
Speaker 1 16:19
I think also I got really upset, not upset, but like, I was playing, because I've been playing through all the Yakuza games, right? Yeah, and they're, like, super good, and I love them very much. But I was, like, almost finished with Yakuza five, and then my game save, like, broke, and it like, my save corrupted, and I, like, didn't have another one. And so, like, it, like, set me back to the, like, the beginning of the game, after like, three hours, and I was like, Yeah, and I just didn't play it anymore, and I need to finish that game. But the thought of starting all over and playing all of that up. So like, I won't, like, 100 because I was, like, doing a lot of the side missions and stuff. So like, I may play that one again next, because I really like those games a lot. I think those are, like, some of my favorite games ever. But I haven't played six, and I want to, so I need to finish five. And so I need to finish five. And there's like, 7000 of those games anyway, so like, I need to finish five and six, yeah. And then there's, like, some of the new, like, like a dragon games came out too. So I don't any play, like, two or whatever. So that because I played the first one and that game was really awesome. And so I just need to catch back up on that series. But like, I think the the emotional distress of being almost done and my game save, like, corrupting and setting me back to the beginning was, like, so overwhelming, because Yakuza five has, I think, actually five characters, because that's a thing. So they were like, there's like, five different characters. And like, each chapter is like a character, and then at the end they, like, sort of all come together, and like, you see the culmination of this, like, very large, elaborate, like, the stories are like, over the top, like Japanese like gang warfare, corporation, corruption, it's like, it's insane, like,
18:26
sequentially, yeah?
Speaker 1 18:28
Well, I think, I think there's some of them are happening simultaneously. So it's like, here is cure you, right? Oh, here's sajima taiga, right. Oh, here's Haruka, right? And then the other guy, his name, I can't remember, right? Like, some there is overlap, right? So they're kind of happening simultaneously, and they're kind of like building towards this big overarching story with with the Daigo dojo, ma disappearance, and all this stuff. So, like, it's a whole thing, but it's kind of overwhelming to start that all over again, but I need to do that, because I need to see the end of that game, plus, who doesn't need more Goro mojima in their life? So that's really important. And then I want to play six. So you have to play this is, again, when you get stuck in a game series, you have a problem, because now there's six. There is the man who erased his name spin off series, like, where did Kiryu go? And then there's the I played like a dragon already, somehow an accident. And then, and then there's like a dragon two. And then there's like, some weird, like a dragon spin off with Goro in it. See, it's just kind of nuts. So, like, so it's, like, very big, long overall thing. So like, I need to go just, sort of like, get back on the wagon and play more play more yakta,
Speaker 3 19:53
one game that I just thought of that I kind of got to the point where either was just way too hard for me for that learning curve, or I was just got. Work from, from it is the dragon, Dragon's Dogma series. Oh yeah, the stupid pawns, like, I couldn't keep them alive, and so I didn't get very far so that I was thinking the whole time of what game would get to me.
Speaker 1 20:11
So true. My controversial game, I have a controversial one. No, you ready? A game that I want to like but I just don't. Is Elden ring
Speaker 2 20:24
I've heard, I mean, I heard a lot of people really do, like,
Speaker 1 20:30
I know I think I don't. It's too long, yeah, right. And I feel like there's, it's like, it's like, really big and open, and you can explore, like, all kinds of places and stuff, but I feel like the reward for exploration is like, nothing, yeah. Like, you'll do these, like Dungeons, or you'll go to the catacombs, and you're looking like, especially after your first like, on your first playthrough, like, I was just like, going around and like, exploring stuff, then I'd like, go down to the bottom of this dungeon, and then I would fight like a boss, and I would get like, nothing. And then I would go to a different dungeon later, and then I would be like, Oh, it's that boss again. And then, like, you would still get nothing, like, for your reward for the dungeon. So like, it's weird that in, like, the Souls games, like, people really bemoan Dark Souls. Two, because it's like, oh, it's just a bunch of reused enemies, and it's the same boss over and over again and blah blah, that's literally Elden ring. But everyone loves Elden ring, yeah, probably because it's not quite as jank as Dark Souls too lazy, but like, because it was, it's the newer version of all Yeah, so Elden ring is Dark Souls, two, two. But like, it's like, you know, you do all this thing, you do all this exploration, and then it'll be like, oh, you know, you're in a dungeon, and you're like, oh, it's the Mad pumpkin head boss. And then, which is like a giant guy with the big pumpkin looking helmet, and he's got like, a mace, right? And then, and then, in a different dungeon, there's a different mad pumpkin head boss with a different weapon. Oh, but in this dungeon, it's both of them together, bro, I've fought this same enemy like, five times and like, I only want to fight like, you know, you can only fight like so many erdtre avatars and so many exact same dragon fights and like, so, you know, like, all the field boss dragons, they're just the same, yeah, they're all the same. Like, some of them just have, like, way more health and like, Oh, this one will freeze you, but this one will rot you. Like, okay, it's just a different status effect, but it's just, like, the same thing. So I'm like, I don't, you don't have to fight these things. Yeah, right. But it's like, Oh, it's here again. And it's not necessarily interesting enough for me to want to do that. Like, I'm a very boring souls player, which is, like, very standard. Like, where's my big, giant hammer? Smash in the face, done. So, like, I don't really, I don't know. I just, like, there's a lot of interesting mechanics there, but some of them I just don't want to engage with, and because I don't care about them, but in order for the game to be played properly, you need to engage with them, right? The game designed for you to use them. But I don't care about, like, buffing my weapon, like, 18 different ways and stuff like, one shot of your boss, like, that's not fun. But also, fighting seven magma worms is not fun either. So like, like, Oh no, this one stands up cool. I need, I guess so, I don't know. I don't think
Speaker 2 23:39
game designers with gameplay like you can imagine just what those writing and creative circles are like, trying to think of something that hasn't been done, yeah, fresh from one thing to another, that
Speaker 1 23:51
must be frustrating. And I think, like, the lore is cool and stuff, but I think it's just too long, right? You just go through too much of the game, right? Like the map is too big, you know what I mean? Because, like, people really, like Dark Souls, one, it's much smaller game, right? Sekiro is the best game they ever made. It is a very small game, but the combat and the bosses are crazy, right? So, like, that's my favorite one, right? Second was my favorite from sock game.
Speaker 3 24:20
I had to look this up because I forgot what it's called, I guess, my controversial want to be creed fall.
Speaker 1 24:26
I kind of like that one. I got kind of bogged down with being in the city and doing now, before you left, it is, that's true. It's getting to the
Speaker 3 24:33
new world. It's like, I don't, I don't want to do this.
Speaker 1 24:36
I liked that game only because, like, it doesn't do anything particularly interesting. Particularly interesting with the like, party system, right? And it gives you a lot of characters, yeah? But, like, it's, it has the RPG character problem where it's like, oh, I don't need that guy. Like, like, you, yeah? Like, they join your party, and you're like. I'm not gonna use that dude, right? Like, you have big sword, dude, you have, like, healer, dude. And you have you, you're like, yep, dabs on it. Good to go. Like, nailed it. I don't need anything else. So there was, like, not enough party composition to make interesting. But I, the only thing that I liked about the game was the, what do we call this the unique like setting factor of like, it is like a high fantasy setting, but it's like set during like, The Age of Discovery, yeah? So it's like, I think, like, it's because everything is very like 1700s but it's like fantasy setting. So, like, that's cool that it's like a fantasy setting that is not medieval. And so I liked that part,
Speaker 3 25:49
yeah, because every other major fantasies is like that. That's like, Oh, here's this knight, and then here's this, yeah, Paladin. You're like, oh. So this
Speaker 1 25:56
one had some different classes slightly, but there was still, like, magic, heavy sword, dude, healer, lady, Oh, yeah. Then there was, like, the range, because there was, like, one lady I unlocked was like, I don't think I never used, yeah, she was cool, but it was kind of neat. Like, the age of discovery, the different factions on the island, like, it was just unique enough that I finished it. Like, was it the most like, mechanically, it wasn't interesting, necessarily, but artistically it was. And the story was just good enough that I wanted to keep playing, yeah, and there was just enough, like, giant random monsters that I was like, okay, kept her interest, yeah? Like, giant monsters of doom in the middle of the wood. That was good enough. Yeah, it was fine. Like, it's not, like, the best game ever played, but I thought it was okay. Yeah, it was fun. I liked it
Speaker 3 26:48
because I did everything, and then I got to the New World, and I was just, I get think I was just kind of burnt out at that point, because there was, like, a stealth mission, there was a big monster boss thing, and there's all the other stuff, and then you got to finally go, and it's like, I don't
Speaker 1 27:01
this is a problem if the PROLOG is too long, yeah, right. Kind of like in a book, if you read a book, foreshadowing for later, where, like, the if, like, the exposition bit is too long and it takes too long to get through, you're like, already bored, because, like, you need to know the mechanics and stuff. But also you just need to be like, Okay, bye, yeah, right. Let's go, Yeah, and so. And I know that it's hard sometimes in, like, very story heavy games, because I like first, like, single player story games, like this kind of my jam, I like that a lot. But like, it has to do with the writing, because I think the bet, like, that's why the Yakuza games are so good. And I think my actual, like, low key underdog favorite game of all time on the list is definitely like, Sleeping Dogs. Sleeping Dogs, like guys, the game is so rad. It's like, if a Hong Kong, like, an 80s or 90s Hong Kong action movie was a video game? Yes, right. It's like undercover policemen in Hong Kong, triads, gang boss question loyalty. Like, it's all there, it's and it's like, it's so good, but the writing in the characters, in the acting is really good, yeah? So, like, you know, it starts and you're in and you're just like, going, but it's not like, oh, go over here. No, there's not many, uh, when a game starts with fetch
28:33
quests, yeah,
Speaker 1 28:35
I'm kind of out, yeah, unless you don't have to do unless the game is like, Skyrim, where it's, like, you could go here, or, what if I did it? Yeah, or like, or like, cyberpunk this time when I'm playing through it, like, I may have done all of the side missions before finishing lots of main story parts. So, like, like, insanely powerful already. Like, Whoops, oh, well, it's fine. You can, like, go around and do all the other stuff and, like, meet all the other characters and things like, there you go. But yeah, so that's anymore games that I stopped playing. I'd have to look at my shelf. I don't think so. Oh, I did. I tried to play some like, I downloaded some games of like, Game Pass, right? They were just like, free. And there was a couple where I was like, Oh, this might be fun. And then I was playing it, and, like, mechanically. I was like, I don't have time for this. I don't have time. I don't want to do this. And some of them were like, driving, like, simulator games, yeah. I was like, This sounds cool in theory. And then I started playing, and I was like, Ooh, no, this is too real. I need more arcadey in my like, racing driving game than this. This is too like, I can't remember what it was one of those. One of them was, like, a because I was like, I just need something to play. Just like, to chill, like, listen to casual play. Yeah. Like, I wanted to, like, Listen. Into some, like, YouTube videos or whatever, and just, like, play a game, right? And, like, not really be super invested, but so I was like, one of those driving simulator games, like, the might be cool. And I played one for like, 30 minutes. It was like, No, this is too like, back and forthy and like, like, but this is not fun. This is not for me. Like, I don't really think this is my jam, so I'm just like, oh, what? Stardew Valley. Oh, no, okay, there's another one that I think people really like, oh, I tried to play tunic. And it's kind of like Zelda E, like old, old Zelda E, like, Castlevania e kind of thing. And I was just like, I this is not a game that I need to play while I'm trying to just, like, chill and, like, not think about things, because you have to remember, it's one of those games where you like, come here. Oh, I can't get that. Leave, come back later with new like, I can't this is not what I want right now. So it's not that the game is bad. It was just not the game that I needed at the time. I was just like, Oh, I just, this is not, that's not what I thought this I'm not gonna, I was just gonna be like, I just need some hack and slashy, like, brain off. Stabby. Stabby, yeah, okay, no, that's not this game. This game is, like, thinking and like, crafting stuff and like puzzles, like,
31:24
oh yeah, no.
31:27
Need Zelda. Okay.
Speaker 1 31:33
So, yeah, I think those are the ones that come to my head, off the off top my head right now that I just, like, given up on, like, oh, I don't want to do this right now. Or some games, if I like, oh, I want to replay that. And then I remember how long it is. I'm like, Oh, wait. Like, so I'll just play, like, mess around for a while. But, like, not with, like, when you play Skyrim sometimes now you're like, Oh, I just want to, like, be in sky with, like, mess around and do stuff. Like, I'm not actually trying to finish this game, right? Yeah, sure. I'm just gonna, like, smack jogger on the head with this hammer and, like, that's really all I need in my life. Like, I don't, I'm not going in, I'm not starting this, planning a huge playthrough to finish the game, because
Speaker 3 32:18
there are some of those games that, like, yeah, there's, there's too much content, and there's like, I just want something. There's very few like, Hey, I'm gonna turn my brain off and just play, yeah. And like, there's, like, one of my favorite games, the the Warhammer total war game, is just this massive monstrosity of a game. There's so many characters on it that I haven't played. Like, every like, I'll play my four or five favorite people. And like, That's it, yeah. Like, there's just so much content that I don't have time to just be like, oh. And then, like, relearn how to do somebody, but I'll, I don't have it pulled up, but I was kind of trying to remember what's on my my Steam list. And like, yeah, there's, I think there's and game on there. And it's like, pond simulator. That's like,
33:01
raise or lower the pH
Speaker 1 33:03
level of the water, add these fish, whatever. Cool, yeah, I tried to download a idea. Why didn't try download it? Because I was like, Oh, I downloaded those, like, fishing simulators, yeah, right. And I was like, even this is too much ridiculous. Like, this is too like, not like, I'm not good at fishing anyway. So, like, as we've discussed previously, yeah, so in video game form, I'm not better. So, like, I was like, Could this be a chill and just like, relax? But I was like, nope, nope. I can't do that. Apparently, I must be, like, racing. Or like, I will just play Forza, yeah, right, I play Forza five a lot. That's my like, obviously, to sit down and like, I got like, 20 minutes all, like, dude, I'll drive this Ferrari in this racial fan, yeah? Or, like, I will play sekiro, because it is so engaged, like, the combat is so engaging, yeah, like, I'll just do, like, the boss fights, because, like, the rest of the game isn't so bad, and it's not long. It's like, difficult and stimulating and challenging, but it's not long. So once you The weird thing is, like, I struggled, like, super hard to play that game the first time, right? We talked about it, the overcoming of isin right? And then I played it again later, and I was like, Oh yeah, take that Guinness rope.
Speaker 3 34:35
Like, oh, I literally just forgot it. It is a game that came out a few years ago. Think it came up with, no, we have to cut this part out. Okay, what we don't cut it's true. Hold on.
Speaker 2 34:56
Streamed right now. Oh, there we go. We do nothing. We can. We can.
Speaker 3 35:01
A it's the video game that has, like, it's like, the traveling and delivery stuff. And there's a guy that has like, the Oh
Speaker 1 35:12
yeah, that game Kojima, yeah, yeah, and it's Norman Redis, yes, I don't know. Yeah, walking simulator, right?
Speaker 2 35:25
So I was gonna ask, because I know that there is a trucking simulator where you drive your truck, yeah? Those are actually pretty fun.
35:31
Yeah. They're like, two real, right? Death Stranding, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 35:39
I was gonna Metal Gear, solid, yeah, the Death Stranding game, we're just like, the introduction cut scene is four hours long. Like, Nope, not gonna try. Or when you try to download something and it's like, Hey, can you delete some space off of your console? Because, like, you'll need two consoles for this amount of stuff, because I bought a few years ago about, like, the quote unquote latest Call of Duty game, six hours of download. I was like, oh, okay, this is fine. I'm having fun. Those games are forever, yeah? But I digress, I could not think of death training, yeah, death training, or the second one that came out that was death, straining two, yeah, vastly longer, because then I see all these people playing it online. I was like, I can do that. And then you try to download it, and you're like, Yeah, your your computer will catch fire if you finish this and delete Thank you.
Speaker 1 36:35
Yeah, I watched so let's play that game. And that was good enough for me. I was, I didn't watch the whole thing even, because it was, like, so long, but yeah, I was like, that's fine. That's fine. Sometimes you watch people playing it, and you're like, oh, yeah, I want to play that. And other times, you're like, No, I'll just watch you. That's good. I'm good. I don't need to play this is not it's not it.
Speaker 3 36:54
There is a game coming out, I think next year. It's so it's a total war game, but it's Warhammer, 40k total war. And if you know anything about the 40k universe, as massive as that is, they're putting that in game form.
Speaker 1 37:08
I hear Henry Cavill is very excited about Yes, he is.
Speaker 3 37:11
I want that game so bad, but I know my computer cannot handle it, so I'll have to watch people play from distance, and a single tear drop will fall upon my face, and I'll be very sad, because my game, my computer, barely holds the game I'm playing now. Like, oh, okay, maybe one day, tack
Speaker 1 37:30
some hard drive onto it. It's like, plug in, plug in there. You keep doing external stuff. True. It's all right, yes. Anyway, now that Collin has been exclusively left out of this discussion,
Speaker 2 37:48
we've got game talk back on. I'm out on this. Sorry. Just not
Speaker 3 37:54
slight bonus, cat has appeared on Oh screen,
Speaker 1 37:58
so we all right. Cat found still just it's slim. Mother in Law was
Speaker 3 38:03
literally driving to our house to go check on it because we thought we locked him in the room. But no, he's he's been caught on live stream, so he
38:12
is all right. So speaking of slinking around, though, let's talk about your boy. Oh boy, there is some sneaking, right?
38:26
So we're in chapter 1616, right?
Speaker 1 38:32
There was sneaking. And turns out we rumors of her death were also greatly exaggerated. Spoiler, yeah, literally, it's right here in this chapter, like they're talking about her, like she's alive. I thought
Speaker 2 38:48
sister was dead, well, because he ended the last one with while she was the wife of Joe. But what that was actually saying was her change in temperament, yeah, because, because we ended with destined never to be on the rampage again. Well, she was the wife of Joe, leaving us to believe that she was, in fact, dead. But no, it was just that she was no longer rampage.
Speaker 1 39:08
Well, she's no longer really speaking, no longer so she's, like, suffered some major head trauma and like, cannot talk, cannot function, right? They can't understand her.
Speaker 2 39:23
But what was found that's crazy, yes, before we get to her, because PIP starts off really concerned, but then he's like, because he thought he was going to be suspect, but then he was like, but in the clear light of day XYZ, it was all fine. There was no issues.
Speaker 1 39:41
Oh, that's true. However, we do have an important literary reference, apparently, at the beginning of this chapter, also I was what I knew that that is important for the rest of this chapter. So like before we discover this, right? George partwell, yeah, so in the last chapter, we know that was it, wopsle.
Speaker 2 39:57
Wopsle was exhorting. He. Was reading this George
Speaker 1 40:01
Barnwell book to pip, right? And so I was like, surely, this is important, right? GEORGE Barnwell, also called the London merchant, was a highly popular tragedy from 1731 right? And it follows the downfall of Wait, wait for it, the downfall of apprentice, George Barnwell, who is seduced by prostitute Sarah Millwood, leading him towards theft and murder, right? And so wopsle is reading this book at PIP saying, like, see what happens if you don't stay on the straight and narrow. Blah, blah. So this is like wopsle Again, like preaching to pip about his behavior and like, what could happen, right? Okay, and so that's why, whenever, at the beginning of this chapter, when Pip was talking about my head full of Barnwell, I thought that this must surely have been my fault in some, some manner, right? So he thought this was all his fault because he'd just been preached at for the past, like several hours, about how he is all of the wrongdoings in his life are his fault because he makes such bad choices, right? But we did find upon the floor an iron ring, right, an iron ring that had been filed through, but not recently, right? Not recently. And PIP makes the connection like this, I believe, I believe the iron could only be my convict iron, the iron I had seen and heard him filing at on the marshes. But my mind did not accuse him of having put it in the latest use. So he doesn't think the convict was the one who did it, but he thinks that this ring came from that person, and so he doesn't know how it ended up here, but it appears to be the weapon of assault.
Speaker 2 41:51
But he does have two suspects. He does the aforementioned, very poorly named Orlick, yes, right? Or the strange man who had shown me the file. Boy, how did I forget
Speaker 1 42:04
about that? Man? Yeah, just a random person that was in the bar stirring his drink with a file. A totally normal thing to do. Everybody always, I mean, yeah, it's what I do. When I have a drink. I stir with a file. Obviously, the other part of this was also very interesting, right? Where he talks about the how well or not well the constables were handling this, right? Yeah, they took up several obviously wrong people, and they ran their heads very hard against wrong ideas, and persisted in trying to fit the circumstances to the ideas, instead of trying to extract ideas from the circumstances, how some things never change,
Speaker 2 42:48
how would a parallel to what his sister would do to him? Yes, he would, you know, there was, I think there was literally a scene where she was like, smashing his face against a wall or something. Yeah, she was blaming him for doing something yesterday actually didn't do. Yeah, like, so it's like, ah, seeing these act out in the public. But also,
Speaker 1 43:08
yes, this just reminded me of the part in Casablanca where the guy's like, round up the usual suspects.
43:18
Go out, that's all they do.
Speaker 1 43:21
And so also, so her, she's, she's been severely injured, right potential, like, traumatic brain injury happening here, and she can't really talk, right? And so they need to, like, take care of her. And it just
Speaker 2 43:39
so happens, I laughed so hard when we got to this point, because they don't know what to do. Joe's at a loss. Pip is really struggling with this, and he says we were at a loss to find a suitable attendant for her, until a circumstance happened conveniently to relieve us. Mr. Wopsles, great aunt conquered a confirmed habit of living into a sheep fall.
Speaker 1 44:09
That is a way to say that the ant died. So now Biddy. Biddy is available, yeah, and so bitty moves in, and bitty seems to be able to deal with this situation like very well, and takes to it immediately. The other part that was, I think it was supposed to be mildly funny, it's like, funny and tragic at the same time, is that, because she can't talk, she would try to write on the slate, and she can't write, and Joe can't read, and so they can't really communicate with each other at all.
Speaker 2 44:44
Yep, yeah, as she was, very bad handwriting apart a more than indifferent speller, and as job was, a more than indifferent reader, extraordinary complications arose between them, which I was always called in to solve. But they have a weird letter or similar. Bowl that they can't figure out, right? That? Yeah, first success when she comes in,
Speaker 1 45:04
yeah, it looks to be the letter T. And they get everything in the house they can think of that has a letter T, and it turns out that it's a hammer, and she wanted to talk to Orlick or lick,
Speaker 2 45:20
and she seems she's not upset whenever he's in. She gets calmer and she likes when he's there. This is suspicious.
Speaker 1 45:29
Oh, yes, right, but yeah, so that's that's basically this chapter, right? We have the after that day, a day really passed without her drawing the hammer on her slate, and without Orlik slouching in and standing doggedly before her as if he knew no more than I did what to make of it. So like she wants him there, we don't know why he is a fiendish fiend,
Speaker 2 45:56
and Orlick appears to not know why either. Yeah, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, all the allegedness true.
Speaker 1 46:06
So that's chapter 16. Very weird. So again, oops, oops, she's not dead. We may have spoke too soon, right? I was led to believe the conclusion of last chapter that she had and in fact, perished. No, just kidding. JK, right.
Speaker 3 46:21
Can I tell you what AI says about chapter 16? Sure. Oh, sure. This character serves as a detective story of sorts, though, the justice served is a murky at best, the evidence, the victim, the Biddy moves in, and those are, like, the little sections that I don't show because they're really,
Speaker 1 46:39
really long. That's fair. So, yeah, it's, that's pretty much summary. It's kind of weird. Again, we're just sort of like progressing little bits of the story, except now. But again, this like this, the way that this book is written is like one chapter will progress, like one aspect of the story, but then the next chapter progresses a different answer. So you have to, like, come back later and be like, Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 47:02
And also, keeping track of time in this book
47:05
is very difficult,
Speaker 2 47:06
very, very difficult, because I believe it's in this chapter 17 where all of a sudden it's like, have months
Speaker 1 47:12
passed, yes, years, yeah, some, many, much time has passed in this next chapter. And I'm
Speaker 2 47:16
like, Wait, how old is Pip now at this point? Because also we have the weird Miss, Miss Havisham thing, where he was coming over on birthdays, and that was, like, the year annual. So it's like, it seems like, since we started this, there's been, like, four years or something, at least yes happening. Very hard to Yes, because he continues to go to Mrs. Miss Havis Havisham, and everything's still dull there, and he still is envious of that life.
Speaker 1 47:49
Yes, right, Estella is still not there, um, but so, like, we have this, like, this chapter is weird because, like, it's almost like he's like, Well, Stella is gone, but now bitty is around more
Speaker 2 48:04
imperceptibly, I became conscious of a change in bitty, yeah.
Speaker 1 48:10
Well, we are maturing, right? We're going through puberty at this point, I would imagine, right? And so now he's like, oh, you know. And he's just been around her so much, Estella is not there. So he's like, maybe she's not so bad, right? Like, and this chapter is, it's just very weird, because basically, they have this big, long talk. He's sort of thinking about her, and he's like, you know, it's she's like, he even asked her at one point. He's like, how is it that you know all the things that I know, even though you're teaching me them? And she's like, I don't know. I just learned them. So she's like, pretty quick on the uptick, right? She knows a lot of stuff. She's pretty wise. She's good at a lot of things. But like, Pip is again, he's like, he, I can't really think about how I want to phrase this, but he is, uh, he, he's thinking about bitty, and he's sort of contemplating what life would be like if he would like be with bitty instead. Yes. And then he thinks that that is like, too low for where his aims are right, because he still is on this like he wants to be this gentleman, high society person, and he feels that bitty would be beneath that. So even though she is a good person, and he does like her, and he does have some sort of feelings for her. She does not represent what he wants out of his life. And this is a very weird kind of awkward conversation, because he basically tells her that, yeah.
Speaker 2 49:55
So he has this weird, like this interaction where they're having this intro, where he's. Like, Wait, like, yeah, the Why are you so good at this? And then he says, Well, yeah, you've always been my first team. You were my first teacher. So let's go ahead and let's go talk more,
50:10
right? He invites her on, like, a Sunday walk. After
Speaker 2 50:13
again, after we get the little jab at Mr. Wopsles, great aunt. Yeah, I love that. So highly desirable to be got rid of by some people. And yeah, and then he's like, you know, let's, let's go for a long chat. And Joe is even like, absolutely, yeah, you should go do this. And allows them to go do that. And immediately he's going on this walk, and he's immediately thinking of Havisham innocent immediately on this walk. And this is a very, like you said, a very awkward conversation, because he does come out and just say it, and the whole time it's bitty, saying, like, Okay, well, you know best, and whatever however you want, right? She's not really giving a opinion one way about this.
Speaker 1 51:00
But he's like, hard friend. Zoning her right now is basically what's happening. Because she says, like, Well, I appreciate one thing about you, Pip, and that is you giving me your confidence. And he was like, and you shall always have it, buddy, as a friend. Ah, dang it. Like, oh no, no. So that is a kind of, because I think she, it's, it's hard to read what she wants, like, is thinking about the situation, right? Because obviously we only have pips perspective, but like, it feels like she was maybe hoping for a bit more out of this situation, and then the fact that he is doing this is like, she's just like, whatever, bro, I'm I'm not gonna waste my she's kind of almost like, Yeah, I'm not gonna waste my time thinking about you anymore, right? I'll be here to listen to you and talk to you, but like, we're not gonna be like, I'm not gonna worry about this kind of stuff, you know?
Speaker 2 51:53
But here he does say, I we get both sides of this coin, I think, which shows a little bit of these, these emotions. Because a little bit earlier, Pip said, I should have been good enough for you, shouldn't I Biddy? And then she says, Yeah, I'm not overly particular, which is a little bit of jab. It's true. Yeah, I love that. But then he said, so here I am going on, dissatisfied and uncomfortable, and what would it signify to me being coarse and common if nobody had told me. So basically, he's like, I know I'm not. And bitty for the first time, gets some react. This gets reaction out of bitty she gets She immediately turns towards him and she says it was neither very true nor a very polite thing to say. Who said it?
Speaker 1 52:39
Yeah, she's mad that that's what Estella told him, yeah, right. She's like, well, that's kind of a jerk move. Like, why would you tell someone that it's not true? Like, kind of, kind of, it's kind of the same thing that Joe told him earlier, like, you're not you're not common, right? You're common at some things, but uncommon at others, right? You have natural talents and abilities, and you can do certain things well, maybe other things you can't do well, but that's fine. Can't do everything, you know, that's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with that. And so she's sort of just reiterating the same thing that Joe told him several chapters ago, which, who knows how many years ago, that was somewhere, somewhere between two and six years ago, right? Like, we don't know, but she's telling the same thing, and PIP is still not listening to it, because he has his eyes and his heart set on this like, dream of of like glory and gentlemanship that he thinks is what Estella and Miss Havisham have again. I don't know how he got this out of a crazy old lady who sits alone in her giant mansion in the dark all the time. I don't know how he was like, yes, that is, that is what I shall aspire to be. Like, that's kind of weird.
Speaker 2 53:54
He was made to feel uncomfortable by the jabs and the snide remarks. True. Different he was, and he's Yeah. He does say, Yeah, I want to be a gentleman on her account. And then Biddy says this wonderful question, right? She asked him that question of, Do you want to be a gentleman to spite her or to gain over her? And then she
54:14
goes on, he can't really answer that question,
Speaker 2 54:16
because if it's this one that's bad, if it's this other one that's also bad, and he's like exactly, I know what a way it was, exactly what was perfectly manifest to me at that moment. But I could I a poor, dazed village lad, avoid that wonderful inconsistency into which the best and wisest of men fall every day? Yes, there's a there's a third way. You're like, there is you can just choose not to engage.
Speaker 1 54:44
Yeah, you don't have to do that. And then, like this, like they decide to go home, right? And then, and then we get this, like, weird side here, because who else is on their way home, but Orlick, Orlick. Who is a villainous and she was bitty, doesn't like or like and and PIP is like, well, I don't either. But why don't you like, yeah, he says he dances at me. I don't really know what that means. It is kind of like, makes weird gestures or just makes her uncomfortable because he's like, some weird dude who's like, much older than her, and he's like, being provocative towards her. She's just like it,
Speaker 2 55:29
yes, she said, Because I'm afraid he likes me. And he said, Did you ever tell Did he ever tell you that he liked you in he PIP asked indignantly,
Speaker 1 55:38
yeah, yeah. Cuz now pips like, wait a minute, you're my friend zone, friend person, so no one else can like you. But again, Pip can't do that, yeah. But like, he's very he like during this interaction, when he learns it or like, treats her this way, he becomes very protective
Speaker 2 55:54
of bitty. I was very hot indeed upon Old, old orlix, daring to admire her as hot as if it were an outrage on myself. Yes, okay, yeah. And then she says, but it makes no difference to you. But he said, comic, no, no, Biddy, it makes no difference to me, yeah.
Speaker 1 56:11
But he still, every time he would do that, he like, walked between them. And then, like, every time he's, like, I endeavor to anytime in the future that he would do these things, act this way towards her, I would stand between them so that she didn't have to see him do that. So, like, it's very weird, I don't know,
Speaker 2 56:31
yes, and so he does start talking about now that after this conversation, though, he finally feels like he had some grounding of, you know what? Maybe my life isn't all that bad, yeah. Maybe I could make this work. But then the end of this chapter tells us that he starts to think of otherwise, right?
Speaker 1 56:55
Yeah, he just keeps going back and forth between like, Oh, this is fine, this is enough. Or like, No, this is no good and I'm no good, and I need to be better, and blah blah, like he just keeps vacillating between these two thought processes, seemingly very quickly, right?
Speaker 2 57:11
And then we get a little foreshadowing here at the end of this chapter, where he says, what did it says 10 days scattered wits take a long time picking up, and often before had caught them well together, they would be dispersed in all directions by one stray thought that perhaps, after all, Miss Havisham was going to make my fortune when my time was left out. And then it ends by saying it never did run out, however, but was brought to a premature end, as I proceed to relate, yeah, and let me go in chapter 18.
Speaker 1 57:41
Okay? 18 is where our time skip happened, right? This is now. We are now four years into fourth year. Yeah, again. We just like, hop, skip, jump all over the place. This chapter is rough to read. I'm not gonna lie, not only spoilers for just a minute. Not only is this just like Dickens doing his writing thing. This also has Dickens writing dialog of a lawyer, yo, what? So some of these sentences are even longer and slightly incomprehensible, and so you really have to, like, slow down. And I had to reread some of this to, like, try to figure out what on earth was happening. But we start the scene in the Jolly bargemen, yes, as one does, where Mr. Wopsle is reading from the paper about a trial.
58:36
Right, reading dramatically, yes, from the
Speaker 1 58:38
paper of a highly popular murder that had been committed, right? And so he is adding his kind of take on this whole situation, right? And there is another strange gentleman leaning in the corner, of course, one who has a strange habit of biting his four knuckle on his hand. It's very he keeps biting his finger. He refers to him biting his finger like 18 million times in this chapter. And so he starts challenging them on this. He's like, What do you know about this? He's like, I don't think that's right. Because he's like, aren't you? Do you not think that in this great country of England that all men should be innocent until proven guilty? Is that not what it says in our law? And wopsles, like, What do you mean? And he this guy keeps calling him out on his stuff, and so much so that the people in the bargemen are like, kind of turning on wopsle and being like, maybe this guy doesn't know all this stuff that he portends to Right. Like, and he's like, Well, what do you know about it? He's like, I, sir, am a lawyer, yes.
Speaker 2 59:47
And he really lays into wopsle, and just this dialog is, was, this was hard to follow, too, no, no later on, well, but I'm saying too, because it's like, the the lawyer is. Having conversations of like, look at the paper. No, no, no. Further down. Like, yeah, there's some of that. Because he was like, pointing out where to go and how to look, because the lawyer
Speaker 1 1:00:09
was also reading the same paper earlier. And he was like, no, no, you didn't read this part of this chapter or this paragraph because you didn't miss you didn't mention this part to all these people. And it's like, called out wopsle old boy.
Speaker 2 1:00:22
We were all deeply persuaded that the unfortunate waffle had gone too far and had better stop at his reckless career while there was yet time. And so you're right. People have a little bit of a different thought of Mr.
Speaker 1 1:00:33
That's true. So after this little scene plays out, then we get the lawyer being like, I'm actually here to talk to somebody named Is there somebody named Joe here? And he's like, uh Yeah. And he's like, Is there also somebody named PIP here? And Pip's like, uh, yeah. And then the stranger did not recognize me, but I recognized him as a gentleman I had met on the stairs on the occasion of my second visit to Miss havisham's. I had known him the moment I saw him looking over the settle, which I assume means couch chair thing. And now that I stood confronting him with my hand upon or his hand upon my shoulder, I checked off again in detail his large head, his dark complexion, his drop deep set eyes, his bushy black eyebrows, his large watch chain, his strong black dots of beard and whisker and even the smell of scented soap in his great hand. So he's like, oh, is a lawyer dude. I haven't seen this guy before. I didn't know who he was before, but I it's the guy that we ran into on the stairs many chapters and many years ago. But Joe or PIP does remember him, and so he wants to go talk to them in the back. And then, so follows a very long and kind of dry conversation in which the word great, the words Great Expectations are used approximately 27
Speaker 2 1:01:55
it's it's a lot. It's a lot, between 10 and 300 Yeah, use of great expectations. I suppose I first I was like, I'm gonna highlight, or just, you know, Mark every time I see it. And I just stopped because I was like, I don't too many, too many. Because it's like, you have expectations. You have great expectations. There are expectations and other expectations. And oh my goodness. So yes, we are introduced to lawyer Jaggers. Yes, London.
Speaker 1 1:02:21
And so basically, the long and short of it is an unnamed client which Mr. Jaggers represents, wants to relieve pip of his apprenticeship. Yep, right, and that's the whole long and short of it, because PIP has been officially apprenticed with the seal and the judge and the stamping and whatever. We need a lawyer to officially apprentice him, right?
Speaker 2 1:02:47
Not that, but only that, but also provide him with education, yeah, and make him a man of stature.
Speaker 1 1:02:54
Yes, we're going, Yeah, this person, this unnamed individual, who's potentially not so mysterious. Wants him to go to London, be educated and become a gentleman. They're gonna like, sponsor his gentlemanship. If that is a phrase that you can say, basically, I
Speaker 2 1:03:12
think the way what you meant to say was that he will come into a handsome property further, that is the desire of the present possessor of that property, that he be immediately removed from this present sphere of life and from this place, and be brought up as a gentleman, in a word, as a young fellow of great expectation.
Speaker 1 1:03:27
Yeah? This chapter is full of that, and it's a little rough to read, but basically, he's like, all right, this is what's gonna happen. He's like, Joe, you good? And Joe's like, yeah, I guess
Speaker 2 1:03:38
do you want money? Yeah, for this, right, as as compensation for the losings. And we'll get more to that, because that comes back up. And again, yeah, he asks Joe in the beginning, like, are you good if we do this? And he's like, Yeah, I wouldn't stand in his way. And then we're relieved of what we're showing what happened. And then in Pip, you know, here now PIP is like, now we get to some particulars about what's happening. And it's, yeah, it's it's pips things. You know, my we have these little spurts of my dream was out. My wild fantasy was surpassed by sober reality. Miss Haversham was going to make my fortune on a grand scale. And then he has trouble responding back to Yeah, the lawyer. He's like, stammering. His heart's pounding because he just can't believe what's going on.
Speaker 1 1:04:21
But Joe also gets like, really mad, because at the end, right? So after this goes on for, who knows, way too long, too many pages, Joe gets mad because the lawyer basically keeps like, Are you sure you don't want any money? And Joe's like, why are you coming to here trying to bait me? And Joe basically gets up and, like, gets ready to box this dude.
Speaker 1 1:04:46
And so he's like, all right, fine, fine, fine, right, fine, it's fine. So then he's just like, okay, the sooner you leave here, the better. We're gonna come here. You're gonna come to London. We're gonna do some thing. You're gonna come to my office. I will get you squared away. And. Went to plan, right? And PIP is very overjoyed. He's very excited, but now he's also conflicted again, because he's like, yeah, I get to go do this thing. I have to leave all these people that I know, right? And he's kind of like, he has no what to think about that.
Speaker 2 1:05:25
Well, also, he also has this weird turn where the thing about the clothes comes up, yeah. He's like, Well, I'll come show you the clothes, but I'll do it at nighttime, so that nobody else can see it. And then it's like,
Speaker 1 1:05:40
really, yeah, he's getting, like, he's already, like, uncomfortable with this, and he's but he's like, already kind of snobby about it towards Joe. And I think that puts Joe off, right? Joe's like, find whatever I don't care, do whatever you want, right? Like, if we're not gonna be good enough for you and you're gonna treat us that way, then you could just get and it's fine, don't worry about it, right?
Speaker 2 1:06:03
And he doesn't. He doesn't even want to be the one to tell video about it either. Yeah, that's again, because it's he just says, Yeah, Joe, have you told Viddy? They're all in the same room? Yeah, same room. He goes, No Pip. And then he goes back. And then he goes, I'd rather Oh, Joe says, which I left it to yourself, Pip, I would rather you told Joe, Pip's a gentleman of fortune. Then says, Joe, God bless him in it. That's all he says. And then it's she dropped to work, looked at her, and after a pause, they both hardly congratulated me. And he says this multiple times, where he says like it starts to get annoyed
Speaker 1 1:06:42
that they're not, like, well, paying attention to him for it. Like, also, like, how much
Speaker 2 1:06:47
they're congratulating him, yeah, just like this over congratulation. And he thinks now he's like, put off by that too, and he's made uncomfortable. But also he's not happy. He's not he's can't understand why they're sad, and it's all this is a very a lot of conflicting emotions going on in this.
Speaker 1 1:07:05
Yeah, and he's and then late at the very end, they go and start talking to each other about this, and, like, not including him, and then he's really upset about that, right? Like he's grumpy that they are doing that, but it's because he he starts like he's being so snobby about it already, right? He hasn't even done anything, right? Just this opportunity and this chance has come, and he's like, full blown snob, and they're just like, they don't want anything to do with somebody who's snobbish and uppity and ridiculous. They don't like that. They're down to earth. They like PIP how he is. They've been trying to help Pip. They tell him he's enough, and PIP doesn't want to hear it from them, and he gets all uppity with him, and so they just stop talking to him. And then that upsets Pip. And so, yeah,
Speaker 2 1:08:01
yep, yep. And they're just, and they don't know how to handle this either, because at one point pips like, well, Saturday night, five more days, and then the day before the day, they'll soon go, basically, it's gonna go fast and and Joe's just like, yep, they will Yep.
Speaker 1 1:08:18
And so he's soon to go, like, right at the end he's talking about it's feeling it very sorrowful and strange that this first night of my bright fortunes should be the loneliest that I had ever known. Because there Joe and bitty are downstairs just chatting up, and He is upstairs all by himself because he won't go talk to them. Yeah and yeah, well,
Speaker 2 1:08:41
and he's, he's immediately pushed everybody out, like you said. He's blocked everybody out who he doesn't want them to see again. I could come back to those clothes because he's, for some reason, he's okay to go to pimblechooks, who's gonna have the close into Pimlico so he can pick up. I'd be very just he goes. It would be very disagreeable to be stared at by all the people here. And Joe's like Mr. And Mrs. Hubble might like to see you in your new genteel figure too. PIP said Joe industrially cutting his bread with the cheese on it in the palm of his left hand, and glancing at my untasted supper as if he thought of the time when we used to compare slices. So yeah, already it's the big gulf distance, and it's just, you can just, there's dissatisfaction all around and PIP because of how he's treating people. Yeah, right? Is a little he's, of course he's gonna be dissatisfied,
Speaker 1 1:09:34
yeah, well, and the only like his only like he thinks that upper society people are like his only interaction people like this are pumblechook, who thinks that he is like that, and he is pompous and arrogant and annoying, and Miss Havisham, who is definitely pompous and arrogant, right? So he has some bad role models on I. How to behave in society correctly, right? Somebody who goes around and wants everybody to pay attention to them and think they're hot stuff, and a crazy lady who's locked herself in a house for an uncertain number of years. So it's not really a wonder that he doesn't know what to do with this information, but also he's being a real big jerk to the people that have looked after him his whole entire life, and that's why they ignore him. And then he's, like, really surprised that they're ignoring him, and he shouldn't be. So they boom. So there we are at the end of chapter 18. So I guess next we're going off to London to go pantaloon shopping or whatever. I don't even know.
Speaker 2 1:10:50
We'll see. We'll see. I have a feeling that these next several chapters, I'm going to be immensely annoyed at
Speaker 3 1:10:58
Pip, yeah, very angry.
Speaker 1 1:11:01
That's true, because I'm already quite annoyed with him this chapter, a lot like 17, when he was being rude to bitty, that was kind of annoying. And then this chapter, he was being so snobby for no reason whatsoever, so that was annoying too. So probably going to continue that. Yes, yeah, yeah.
1:11:22
Did your How did your AI summarize
Speaker 3 1:11:26
a twofer for you. So chapter 18 is arguably the most pivotal moment in the entire novel. It is a moment the title of Great Expectations finally comes to fruition as Pip's life is many, many times forever by a mysterious bit of factor. This chapter takes place on a Saturday night at the local pub, the three Jolly bargemen About a year after the events of chapter 17, which made me to deep dive further, which I'll come back years spanning. So, oh, good. So from on, on chapters 14, 1516, and 17, he is approximately 15 to 16 years old. The dark years at the four is the attack on Mrs. Joe, the growing rivalry between orlek Chapter 18 covers him 18 years old. So from chapter 12 and 13, he's about 1113 years old. There is a time jump from 12, chapter 12, chapter 13 to chapter 1415, 1617, where he is 15 years old. And then there is a bigger jump at 18 years old for chapter 18, the turning point jaegers arrives. Okay, Pip receives his great expectations.
Speaker 1 1:12:30
So also interestingly, at the beginning of this book, he was approximately seven,
1:12:35
seven. So we have only we. We've
Speaker 1 1:12:37
jumped 11 years in in 18, yeah,
Speaker 3 1:12:45
I do not feel like that. So, yeah, it was a game of thrones paradox, like, how? So according
Speaker 1 1:12:53
to this, yeah, at the beginning, he's, I mean, that kind of, it's so it's hard to keep track of how he would behave, right? Yeah. So like, at the beginning of the book, like, I guess that tracks because he that's when he meets the convict, and he's like, super terrified of him and being, like, attacked by himself. But if he's seven, that track also, we didn't really have a good idea of how old he was at the beginning of the book, so it's been hard to keep track of this. But if now he is 1718, this like, petulant, pompous attitude, also kind of tracks, yeah, right? And especially in the last chapter, if the last chapter, he was a couple years long. He was like 14 through 17, like in the so when he was walking with bitty, he's like 1617, years old, yeah, so he's being kind of an idiot, like that. That tracks, tracks, right? Like, so, I mean, it makes sense, but the fact that that time jump happened so quickly and with like little more demarcation than like, it had been two years since, like, it's really kind of hard for me to conceptualize. Like, how old is he right now? Like, what is happening lining up some of the expectations, yeah, because I was not, I was not at 18, right? I was thinking we were somewhere like 15, yeah, 16, maybe so, not too far off, I guess. But like, I was definitely not at 18 in my mental calculations of, like, where we could be right now.
Speaker 3 1:14:20
So it goes further into a detailed breakdown of years, the childhood gap, age seven to 10, between the opening scene of the in the marshes and the first visit to Mrs. Miss Havisham. About three years passes. During this time, Pip is struggling at Mrs. Mr. Wopsles, great aunt's evening school, where bitty eventually becomes, begins to teach him,
Speaker 1 1:14:42
but that's like two pages, so the fact that that is spending three years is very difficult to, like, ascertain, right?
Speaker 3 1:14:49
Like, not get that feeling the next part, especially during this time period where a Princeton ship, where do you would like go and send a kid for like, years? Yeah. Of. 12 to 18, the most significant jump in time happens between chapter 13 and chapter 15, once PIP is bound to Joe in an apprentice, yeah, the narrative slows down to describe his growing misery. Dickens notes that a year or two passes between visits to Miss Havisham. By the time we read chapter 18, Pip has been an apprentice for several years. He is no longer a child, but a young man, roughly 18, capable of moving to London and living on his own. And then again,
Speaker 1 1:15:30
when this chapter we talking about, he said, It's been four years into my apprenticeship in chapter 18, yeah. So yeah, that okay, but it's just again. It happens like the time, kind of like, he just sort of like, flippantly says, like, oh yeah, it'd been a couple years. And then like, yeah, some time passed. Many moons, yeah. Many moons, yeah. We're not gonna say so it's been kind of hard to keep track of this. So that does help a lot with understanding where PIP is, like, developmentally, and why he would be thinking these things and thinking because, like, again, because some of these time skips are described in a page and a half. Like, it's kind of hard to think about like, he's been doing the same thing every day for like, four years. Okay, that makes a little bit more sense as to what he's thinking about, but also less sense, because he's still stuck on this idea of people that he hasn't seen. He hasn't seen Estella in like six years at this point then, and he's still, like, completely obsessed with her, which is weird, like, well, all right. Well, thank you for time lining this out. Yeah, I was quite useful, very helpful, because I was a bit yeah, like Aaron was texting Aaron. How is he now? Technology, skills of this. There we go.
Speaker 2 1:16:58
Okay, well, I'm gonna round us out for the Haiku. Please do. Okay, okay, backstory, oh, we, I think, I mean, you may know this, we went and found some old, dead relatives. Oh, yeah, cemetery on a grand adventure. There was no convicts in the cemetery. Was there no, okay? No. A names rise from stone roots whisper through quiet ground. I find myself there.
1:17:31
Oh, very nice.
Speaker 3 1:17:39
So I had an AI haiku because I forgot what a haiku was, and it just happened to be on the same page of Great Expectations, hopes rise with the mist, gold bought with a heavy heart. Iron binds the soul. Dun.
Speaker 2 1:17:56
Dun, dun. Well, we will do this again next time.
1:18:02
All right. Love you guys. Love you too. You.